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[LTA intro music]

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LiveTextAccess.

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Training for real-time
intralingual subtitlers.

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This is Unit 1.
Understanding accessibility.

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Element 3. Embedding accessibility
in working environments.

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In this video lecture, we show
an interview with Evan Dorrestein,

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a real-time intralingual subtitler
from the Netherlands.

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You can also watch the two videos
on the same topic

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by D’Arcy McPherson.

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My name is Piero Cavallo

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from the Internationale Hochschule
SDI München, in Germany.

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I have prepared this video lecture

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in collaboration with Rocío Bernabé Caro,
also from SDI München,

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and the European Federation
of Hard of Hearing, in short, EFHOH.

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On completion of the training sequence,

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you will be able to advise customers
about how to best set up

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an accessible real-time
working environment

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for persons with hearing loss

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in the trained working contexts
and settings.

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To achieve that,

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we will show testimonials
and interviews of professionals.

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The agenda is very short.

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First, I am going to introduce
our invited speaker, Evan Dorrestein.

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Then, I will illustrate the topics
of the interview.

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Finally, we will end this video lecture
with a summary.

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First of all,
let me introduce you Evan Dorrestein.

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Evan Dorrestein is from the Netherlands.

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He has medium long, brown hair
and a beard.

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He started his career
as a real-time subtitler

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for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing

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at the Dutch national broadcaster NPO

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in 2001.

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Since 2006,

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he has been a freelance subtitler
and respeaker

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and he has worked at conferences
and other live events,

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both on-site and remotely.

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Let me give you some information
before watching the video.

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In the interview,

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Evan answered some questions

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about how a real-time subtitler
provides accessibility

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in live television.

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In particular,

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he discussed about the equipment
that a real-time subtitler should have

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when working in this context.

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As you will see in a while,

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he highlights the fact,
that usually is the company

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that provides you with the equipment
and a software to work with.

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Then, Evan talks about the differences
between working on-site and online.

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Then, Evan talks about the importance
of getting feedback in this context.

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Lastly, Evan talks about
what are the advantages

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of working for a television company
as a real-time subtitler.

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Ok, let’s watch the video now!

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-[Piero] Hi, Evan.
-[Evan] Hi, there.

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[Piero] Nice to have you here again.

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Now we are talking
about live TV subtitling.

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We already talked
about conferences and working meetings.

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We have seen
what a live captioner needs to have

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in order to provide good accessibility.

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And what are the differences
between online and face-to-face settings.

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And also some tips and tricks
for new professionals

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entering these fields.

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We are now switching to live TV,
as I said.

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As a professional who facilitates
communication in live TV,

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what do you need in live television,

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when providing captioning
in live television

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to provide good accessibility?

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[Evan] Usually, if you work
for television, it would be

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in the office,

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where all the subtitlers are.

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The only thing you will probably need,
is provided by the company.

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You would have a company headset,
or you would have a company microphone.

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And you would have
the company software to work with.

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Depending on the country,

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you would do your TV shows

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by yourself, and correct yourself,

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or you would have a colleague

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who would do the correcting as you work.

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Or you might even take turns.

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That is different for each country.

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I will tell you something about
the situation in the Netherlands.

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We have some commercial broadcasters.

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They usually work in pairs.

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Where one person

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would do the subtitling

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before the commercial break,

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and the other one would do the second bit
after the commercial break,

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for instance.
And they would help each other

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with the preparation of the TV shows.

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So they would...

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build a lexicon of words
that they would need

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for a particular TV show.

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And they would load it

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wherever it's needed,

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so that the other person could use it.

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I began my career as a TV subtitler

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for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing.

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I would do Dutch to Dutch respeaking.

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We used to do the shows by ourselves.

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Not in pairs.

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I'm used to editing

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my own mistakes when I am respeaking.

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It's very important that you have

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some basic typing skills

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to quickly correct your own mistakes.

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Because you would not use
speech recognition

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to correct your mistakes.
You would use the keyboard.

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Or, if you make a lot of mistakes,

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you would discard the whole phrase

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and you would respeak it again.

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And then hope that second time round,
it would come out right.

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If you work for television,
there are several--

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different types of software
that you could use.

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One company that I worked for,

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they had...

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software where you could hardly
use the keyboard

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to edit your mistakes.

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You would have to do
everything by voice.

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Which was really annoying.

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Because the errors
would already be on-air

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and visible for everybody to see,

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and you have to correct afterwards.

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Now, for other broadcasters
that I worked for

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we can work from home.

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So we have the software
on our own laptop.

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And we can use the keyboard
to correct the mistakes.

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We can send the actual caption online

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by pressing a button.

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So we have a lot more control
over the quality that we bring.

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Which I prefer much more than

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being sort of--

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at the will of the computer

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who decides for you

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whether or not
a mistake is visible or not

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for the entire audience to see.

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[Piero] So we have seen basically that,

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most of the times
live captioners work

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in an office.

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Or at home.

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And they are provided with
a software from the company,

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a computer, and so on.

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Apart from all these,

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do you think there are some equipment

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specific for the live TV setting

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that a live captioner must have,
or should have?

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[Evan] The thing that struck me
when I started to work

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was that they did not have

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the headset that I use.

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I would have a standard
loan microphone to talk in.

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Basically, it's what
the company provides you with.

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You don't really have
any control over that.

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It's different. If you work from home,
you can get your own equipment.

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If you are self-employed,
like I am,

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you make sure
that you have your own equipment.

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You make sure that you have
the state-of-the-art equipment.

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The best equipment that you can get.

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That's a bit of an investment, maybe.
But it will pay back for itself

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with a couple of jobs that you do.

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If you work for a company,

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you have to deal
with whatever they give you.

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[Piero] You have to stick
with the equipment they provide you.

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And what about--

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You mentioned,
in the other interview we had

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about conferences and working meetings,

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that a good space,
environmental space

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and also good lighting,
good acoustics,

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those are important factors,
in those settings.

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What about in live TV?

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Is it important to have good lighting,
good acoustics, and so on?

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[Evan] Again, you are at the will
of what the company offers you

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where you have to sit.

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One difference that there is
between live TV and conferences,

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is that sometimes,

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because of the digital signal of TV,

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the subtitles that you create,

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there is a delay there.

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You would get the audio signal

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maybe 8 seconds earlier

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here in the Netherlands.

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And it would appear on TV
maybe 9 seconds later.

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The subtitles are not
completely synchronized.

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There's always a delay
of 1 or 2 seconds.

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Even when you are really quick.

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But that--

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That causes some issues, that you cannot
rely too much on the television,

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on what you see on TV.

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You are relying on the audio.

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So if you are subtitling football,

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and the commentator says the name
of the player who has the ball,

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I wouldn't bother saying that,

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in my subtitles--

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Because, whenever I say
the name of a football player,

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the ball is already 2-3 players on,

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so the wrong name comes on screen

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at that particular time.

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It requires a bit of--

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You have to anticipate a bit more.

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And maybe adapt

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your way of captioning.

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But that goes--

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That's really, mostly for sports.

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But also, there might be

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subtitles that are in another language,

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so that there is already
a subtitle there

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that you need to be aware of

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if you are working with closed captions.

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So you would need to, maybe,

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put you captions a bit higher,
maybe at the top of your screen.

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Or halfway.

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So that you don't block

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the other subtitle
that will be on screen in your TV.

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[Piero] So you have to consider that too.

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[Evan] You have to consider that.

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Although, I must say,
for some companies,

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they always have the subtitles

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for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing.

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They always have them raised
a couple of lines,

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so that they never cover
the bottom part

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where the regular subtitle would be.

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So, that--

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In that case,
your subtitles are always raised.

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But then again, sometimes
the regular subtitles are raised

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because there's a name--

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a speaker indication there.

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And whenever that happens
the regular subtitle loosens up

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And, even then,
you are conflicting

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the position of the subtitles.

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Sometimes it goes wrong,
even when you raise the subtitles.

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Always.

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-[Piero] It can get messy sometimes.
-[Evan] It can get messy, yeah.

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[Piero] What about
the differences that...

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you have in online and face-to-face?

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I mean,
when you are physically in the office.

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in the broadcaster office.

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And when you're working at home.

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Are there any differences?

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[Evan] Not really, because...

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if you're working for TV

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you don't have any feedback
or any feeling

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with the person
that you are doing your work for.

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You feel very, very distant
from the intended audience,

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if you're working for TV.

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It feels a lot more scary
to work for one person

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who is sitting in front of you,

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who you're doing the work for,

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than if you're subtitling
for 100,000 viewers, maybe.

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But they are all behind
the television set,

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somewhere in the country.
And you don't have any contact with them.

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[Piero] What about the feedback?

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Do you get any feedback at all
working in live TV?

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[Evan] Hardly. Hardly.
And that's a shame.

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Because if more people
would give feedback,

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then some people

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in a position of power,
might be--

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might feel compelled
to change something.

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And something about the quality
of TV live subtitling.

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00:14:10,062 --> 00:14:13,038
Because it really is pretty bad,
at times.

257
00:14:13,788 --> 00:14:15,249
And if people don't complain,

258
00:14:16,765 --> 00:14:18,663
the managers who are at the top,

259
00:14:18,976 --> 00:14:20,242
they won't change anything.

260
00:14:21,906 --> 00:14:25,936
I would encourage people
to complain about the bad subtitles.

261
00:14:26,237 --> 00:14:28,578
Or give us some compliments
when things are good.

262
00:14:30,929 --> 00:14:34,796
There is really a lack of feedback
from the viewers in the Netherlands.

263
00:14:35,937 --> 00:14:39,640
[Piero] So you basically stick
to the requirements of the broadcaster.

264
00:14:40,726 --> 00:14:41,867
Their guidelines.

265
00:14:42,168 --> 00:14:45,186
[Evan] Yeah, you just do your thing,
and you just--

266
00:14:45,487 --> 00:14:47,578
It's just another shift that you do.

267
00:14:48,374 --> 00:14:50,390
And your heart is not really
in it, usually.

268
00:14:50,691 --> 00:14:51,827
It's completely different

269
00:14:52,128 --> 00:14:54,710
when you're working
for people face-to-face.

270
00:14:55,011 --> 00:14:56,171
Or for companies.

271
00:14:56,472 --> 00:14:59,562
Then you really think,
"I have to do my best here."

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00:15:00,108 --> 00:15:01,960
And if it's just another TV show,

273
00:15:02,554 --> 00:15:03,843
it's just another TV show.

274
00:15:04,601 --> 00:15:07,624
[Piero] Yeah. So maybe working
in conferences

275
00:15:07,925 --> 00:15:10,749
and working meetings
is more exciting

276
00:15:11,050 --> 00:15:12,913
-[Piero] than working in live TV.
-[Evan] It is.

277
00:15:13,214 --> 00:15:14,734
[Evan] It's a lot more fun, yeah.

278
00:15:16,791 --> 00:15:19,549
[Piero] What would you say is a pro

279
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,322
in working in live television

280
00:15:22,623 --> 00:15:26,314
instead of working
for conferences and meetings?

281
00:15:27,869 --> 00:15:30,908
[Evan] Well, the pro is
that you have a steady income.

282
00:15:31,209 --> 00:15:32,346
You have some stability.

283
00:15:32,647 --> 00:15:37,970
Because you have a certain amount
of shifts every week that you do.

284
00:15:38,271 --> 00:15:40,439
You have this basis to fall back on.

285
00:15:41,096 --> 00:15:43,400
This foundation.
And it's great to have that.

286
00:15:43,701 --> 00:15:47,088
And to have both of these things.

287
00:15:47,533 --> 00:15:51,768
So you can have your freelance career.

288
00:15:53,127 --> 00:15:54,666
And you have your television...

289
00:15:56,205 --> 00:16:00,189
career, that's the basis
of what you need.

290
00:16:01,096 --> 00:16:03,721
If you have both,
it's a great combination.

291
00:16:04,518 --> 00:16:07,455
I have one more thing to add
about what makes television...

292
00:16:08,345 --> 00:16:10,893
different from the live settings.

293
00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:13,658
If you work for a television show,

294
00:16:14,096 --> 00:16:15,205
you have a lot of...

295
00:16:16,713 --> 00:16:19,080
prepared text that you need to edit,

296
00:16:19,381 --> 00:16:21,932
and make ready for--

297
00:16:22,533 --> 00:16:23,634
to bring on-air.

298
00:16:24,580 --> 00:16:28,713
Sometimes, you have to switch
between doing live captioning

299
00:16:29,502 --> 00:16:32,119
and using the text
that you already have.

300
00:16:32,420 --> 00:16:34,244
The autocue text, for instance.

301
00:16:34,545 --> 00:16:35,549
Or if you have--

302
00:16:36,697 --> 00:16:38,174
If you have a news presenter,

303
00:16:38,775 --> 00:16:41,236
you would have all the text
of the news presenter.

304
00:16:41,744 --> 00:16:42,744
That makes it...

305
00:16:44,019 --> 00:16:45,347
a bit easier

306
00:16:48,152 --> 00:16:51,620
have longer shifts, so you can
sometimes have a little breather,

307
00:16:51,921 --> 00:16:55,902
because you can just press
the pre-prepared text on-air.

308
00:16:57,925 --> 00:17:00,277
But if you make the switch

309
00:17:00,910 --> 00:17:04,082
from doing a live bit,

310
00:17:04,612 --> 00:17:08,519
and then you go back
to the prepared text that you have,

311
00:17:09,402 --> 00:17:11,441
you always have a bit
of a delay, because...

312
00:17:12,871 --> 00:17:14,316
everything that you do live

313
00:17:14,714 --> 00:17:17,058
it causes you to run
a few seconds behind,

314
00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:18,402
when you've finished.

315
00:17:19,668 --> 00:17:20,793
And then you can't

316
00:17:21,457 --> 00:17:24,808
immediately use the next bit of text

317
00:17:25,847 --> 00:17:27,152
that you have prepared

318
00:17:27,777 --> 00:17:30,910
because the last subtitle that you had

319
00:17:32,144 --> 00:17:34,113
brought on-air, is still on-air.

320
00:17:34,414 --> 00:17:38,019
So you have to be
very aware of the timing.

321
00:17:38,582 --> 00:17:39,582
And...

322
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:45,808
make sure that you don't press
the next prepared bit of text on-air.

323
00:17:46,832 --> 00:17:51,683
Because it causes the other bit of text
to disappear too quickly from your screen.

324
00:17:52,168 --> 00:17:54,175
And people won't be able to read it.

325
00:17:54,476 --> 00:17:58,285
Because it's been on your screen
for maybe half a second.

326
00:17:58,660 --> 00:18:01,488
And then the other text pops on
on screen.

327
00:18:01,886 --> 00:18:04,418
So you really need to be aware
of the timing there.

328
00:18:05,855 --> 00:18:09,113
[Piero] Talking about
these advices you are giving,

329
00:18:09,414 --> 00:18:12,050
what are other tips

330
00:18:12,351 --> 00:18:15,862
you would like to give
to new professionals

331
00:18:16,163 --> 00:18:17,566
entering in this field

332
00:18:17,867 --> 00:18:21,832
and live captioners
who want to work in live television?

333
00:18:24,363 --> 00:18:27,418
[Evan] Again, here I would say
it's very important to get feedback.

334
00:18:28,918 --> 00:18:32,660
Sometimes you might have a colleague
who assesses your work.

335
00:18:33,679 --> 00:18:35,061
And they would give you feedback.

336
00:18:35,362 --> 00:18:40,101
They would say,
"Your NER score is not good enough."

337
00:18:41,702 --> 00:18:44,483
That's just a paper reality.

338
00:18:44,784 --> 00:18:48,554
An administrative way
of looking at the quality of work.

339
00:18:50,124 --> 00:18:51,382
Whereas, sometimes,

340
00:18:53,093 --> 00:18:57,952
It would be nice to have the feedback
of somebody who actually saw your work.

341
00:18:58,253 --> 00:19:00,999
-[Piero] Yeah, from the audience.
-[Evan] Yeah, from the audience.

342
00:19:01,929 --> 00:19:04,062
[Evan] Because you can be very literal

343
00:19:04,363 --> 00:19:07,194
and have a lot of text
but have a lot of mistakes.

344
00:19:07,593 --> 00:19:10,265
But because you have so much text,

345
00:19:10,866 --> 00:19:12,921
that your score
might still be quite good.

346
00:19:14,202 --> 00:19:17,015
But there might have been
quite a lot of errors there, as well.

347
00:19:19,546 --> 00:19:23,749
I would always advice people to be
critical of the text that they provide.

348
00:19:24,050 --> 00:19:25,515
That you can see on screen.

349
00:19:25,816 --> 00:19:28,741
Because you cannot see,
in an NER score,

350
00:19:29,945 --> 00:19:32,483
if the text disappeared
from your screen too quickly.

351
00:19:32,784 --> 00:19:34,866
And it wasn't readable at all.

352
00:19:35,593 --> 00:19:37,655
It's hard to get these things--

353
00:19:39,351 --> 00:19:42,210
to capture these things
in quality assessments.

354
00:19:42,601 --> 00:19:45,288
So these are the things
that you need to be aware of yourself.

355
00:19:45,589 --> 00:19:47,444
[Piero] Any last remarks

356
00:19:47,983 --> 00:19:51,226
you want to raise for live television?

357
00:19:52,077 --> 00:19:56,825
[Evan] Yeah. Go to the toilet
before you go into a broadcast.

358
00:19:57,126 --> 00:20:00,614
Because once it starts,
there's no way to go. [laughs]

359
00:20:01,809 --> 00:20:04,489
[Piero] You cannot ask the switch

360
00:20:04,790 --> 00:20:06,927
-[Piero] after 5 minutes.
-[Evan] No. Don't drink too much.

361
00:20:07,228 --> 00:20:09,090
[Evan] I mean, drink enough coffee,

362
00:20:09,391 --> 00:20:10,692
but don't drink too much coffee.

363
00:20:11,020 --> 00:20:12,919
Especially if it's a late-night TV show.

364
00:20:13,481 --> 00:20:15,911
-[Piero] So, always go to the toilet before.
-[Evan] Always go to the toilet.

365
00:20:17,059 --> 00:20:18,778
[Piero] Many, many thanks, Evan

366
00:20:19,757 --> 00:20:23,616
again for all your knowledge,
and all your information.

367
00:20:23,929 --> 00:20:25,187
-[Evan] I see you.
-[Piero] See you.

368
00:20:25,488 --> 00:20:26,655
-[Piero] Bye.
-[Evan] Bye-bye.

369
00:20:27,676 --> 00:20:28,676
The summary.

370
00:20:29,387 --> 00:20:30,481
To briefly sum up,

371
00:20:30,782 --> 00:20:33,629
we can say that working
as a real-time subtitler

372
00:20:33,930 --> 00:20:34,997
in live television,

373
00:20:35,708 --> 00:20:40,879
basically requires the same equipment,
both on-site and online.

374
00:20:42,036 --> 00:20:45,200
Usually, is the broadcaster you work for

375
00:20:45,501 --> 00:20:50,254
that provides you with the equipment,
a software, and an office.

376
00:20:51,411 --> 00:20:54,653
If you work for live television,
but from home,

377
00:20:55,208 --> 00:20:58,879
you might have more control
over the equipment you use,

378
00:20:59,309 --> 00:21:03,598
allowing you to use the equipment
that best fits your needs.

379
00:21:04,504 --> 00:21:09,903
Then, we have seen that getting feedback
from users of real-time subtitles

380
00:21:10,348 --> 00:21:12,348
of television is hard.

381
00:21:13,098 --> 00:21:17,332
This is because the interaction
between the subtitler and the users

382
00:21:17,708 --> 00:21:19,325
is really scarce.

383
00:21:20,012 --> 00:21:25,161
Still, it is very important
for a subtitler working in television

384
00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:27,481
to get feedback from users,

385
00:21:27,782 --> 00:21:31,020
in order to improve the service offered.

386
00:21:31,825 --> 00:21:36,418
An alternative way to get feedback
is to ask your colleagues.

387
00:21:37,145 --> 00:21:40,348
Lastly, we have seen
that one of the advantages

388
00:21:40,715 --> 00:21:45,934
of working in a broadcaster company is
that you have a steady income.

389
00:21:46,590 --> 00:21:49,621
This allows you to have
your freelance career

390
00:21:49,922 --> 00:21:51,161
in parallel to that.

391
00:21:51,981 --> 00:21:53,145
Exercises.

392
00:21:53,504 --> 00:21:57,629
The exercises for this video lecture are
in the Trainer’s Guide

393
00:21:57,930 --> 00:21:59,278
and the PowerPoint file.

394
00:21:59,942 --> 00:22:05,942
[LTA outro music]

395
00:22:10,583 --> 00:22:12,887
LTA - LiveTextAccess.

396
00:22:13,629 --> 00:22:16,262
Universitat Autònoma de Barcelona.

397
00:22:17,244 --> 00:22:20,377
SDI - Internationale Hochschule.

398
00:22:21,487 --> 00:22:24,987
Scuola Superiore
per Mediatori Linguistici.

399
00:22:26,182 --> 00:22:27,807
2DFDigital.

400
00:22:28,955 --> 00:22:32,244
The European Federation
of Hard of Hearing People - EFHOH.

401
00:22:33,346 --> 00:22:34,377
VELOTYPE.

402
00:22:35,268 --> 00:22:36,604
SUB-TI ACCESS.

403
00:22:37,784 --> 00:22:42,783
European Certification
and Qualification Association - ECQA.

404
00:22:46,143 --> 00:22:50,018
Co-funded by the Erasmus+ Programme
of the European Union.

405
00:22:52,049 --> 00:22:53,612
Erasmus+ Project:

406
00:22:54,446 --> 00:23:06,001
2018-1-DE01-KA203-004218.

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00:23:07,376 --> 00:23:10,673
The information and views set
on this presentation

408
00:23:11,087 --> 00:23:12,711
are those of the authors

409
00:23:13,012 --> 00:23:16,548
and do not necessarily reflect
the official opinion

410
00:23:16,899 --> 00:23:18,235
of the European Union.

411
00:23:19,344 --> 00:23:22,946
Neither the European Union
institutions and bodies

412
00:23:23,509 --> 00:23:26,118
nor any person acting on their behalf

413
00:23:26,751 --> 00:23:29,274
may be held responsible for the use

414
00:23:29,790 --> 00:23:33,149
which may be made
of the information contained here.